Just making a quick note to myself.
(1)
MMORPGs which feature PvP usually have a problem with snares, stuns, fear, etc. On the one hand side you want characters to be able to do some of these things to make the game more interesting. On the other hand, chaining these things on another players creates a bad experience for him.
Now, you could ignore this problem if PvP was more about the grand scale, like strategy, than about the immediate fight. But generally it doesn't hurt to make the immediate fight in and on itself as fun as possible, too.
The classic solution are diminishing returns. If a stun/snare/fear/etc. is cast on a player who has suffered from a similar ability a bit earlier, it's less powerful. Eventually the victim becomes immune for some time.
(2)
Unfortunately this is a very straight-in-your-face mechanic and as such not very immersive. (Copying R. Kosters terminology here. I could just as well say that it doesn't make much sense from a simulation point of view and its only justification is the abstract gameplay.)
So here's the idea: Instead of diminishing returns, the ability to execute a stun/snare/fear/etc. is a proc which allows you to active the ability. You can't use the ability without the proc.
The chance of the proc can depend on many things, like the ability just used before. But it also depends on whether the victim has suffered a similar debuff recently. This makes for almost the same abstract gameplay as it allows developers to add such abilities to the game. But it is a much less in-your-face mechanic that makes a bit more sense from a simulation PoV.
If the proc stays for some amount of time and is not used immediately, it might even be possible to create playing styles (e.g. classes) which depend on such procs.
How about something simpler and actually makes some rational, immersive sense?
ReplyDeleteAfter being CC'd, I get a 1 minute chance for resisting further CC. Perhaps it starts at 75% and counts down for a minute.
Call it "wise to your ways", and could be useful as a type of buff allowing a player to briefly become a trap sweeper of sorts.
You're really just trading frustrations.
ReplyDeleteA stun that I can only activate on a proc is unreliable - "did it not proc because the guy has DR to stuns, or am I just a victim of RNG?" Then you suggested allowing the proc to last a while, which would likely lead to two players attacking a DR-free guy to get procs, and then switch to his partner who gets to eat full-length CC back-to-back. Or they could just stagger it.
The only problem with chain-CC in, say, WoW is typically how you only ever get one chance every 2 minutes to do something about it. Imagine if the PvP trinket had a 45 second cooldown, or if it had a secondary function that could break CC on a teammate (on a different timer, so there would be no reason NOT to use it to help).
Or, you know, consolidate the DRs themselves. Keep maybe Roots separate, but make Cyclone/Sheep/Fear/etc all share same DR.
As an aside, I don't see how any grand scale PvP can possibly be fun if the individual combat is unfun. Back when AV was 40m, those road meetings were "fun" until you were chosen as the focus-fire target... then you got gibbed. You still get gibbed when a good individual combat system meets dozens of players, but at least you can have fun on the way to the zerg.
Azuriel:
ReplyDeleteThe only problem with chain-CC in, say, WoW is typically how you only ever get one chance every 2 minutes to do something about it. Imagine if the PvP trinket had a 45 second cooldown, or if it had a secondary function that could break CC on a teammate (on a different timer, so there would be no reason NOT to use it to help).
Well, as I'm sure you know, many forms of cc in WoW can already be dispelled by an alert teammate of the right class. And what you describe, the switching of cc targets once DRs kick in are already a typical element of a WoW arena match. In fact, eating a full-duration cc is usually a failure at very high level play.
I think its handling of cc in PvP is one of the things that WoW does mostly right, actually. Introducing RNG of the sort Bristal describes would be extremely frustrating to the chess match of arena. Even the spatial randomness of fear is a bit controversial. I think all PvP solutions in general ought to be very careful about random procs and instead focus on giving players a way to respond. We do not want to lose matches because something procced for the other person but not for us. It's about the worst thing that can happen.
Most cc moves have cast times and are vulnerable to interrupts or ducking behind a pillar, others depend on melee range and are vulnerable to your partner peeling. There are already many ways to skin that cat, and I think most of those are pretty immersive.
That said, one of the (sadly) few good things about SW:TOR's PvP is the inclusion of an explicit DR display, instead of WoW's guesswork/addons.