Wednesday, June 8, 2011

Dave “Fargo” Kosak

World of Warcraft's lead quest designer thinks openly about what to do once you've reached maxlvl.

Here's a quote:
Keeping the Rewards Coming

In the absence of gaining levels, there are still ways to reward players who want to continue questing or playing through quest-like experiences. Here are some things (there may be more) that might encourage players like this to stick around:

- Participation in an epic story
- A sense of progress
- Discovery of something new or unexpected each day
- Earning character customization (including cool mounts!)
- Earning fun toys
- Making your character more powerful

He doesn't even mention anything that would be MMO specific. The entire list could easily be applied to a single player game.

Oh - and he seems to think that it is all about rewards, rewards and rewards. It seems rewards are the only thing a Blizzard employee can come up with he tries to understand why somebody plays a game.

15 comments:

  1. Consider that, in a lot of ways, WoW is built on an action->reward model from level 1 up, and his stance doesn't come as much of a surprise. The point could be made that the 'Skinner Box' gameplay model of most modern MMOs relies upon rewards, in fact.

    I'm curious: as a corollary, would anyone enter a raid if they didn't get gear, if the only reward was progression? (For my own answer: I would, and I'd be more drawn to it if raiding were less about gear and more about stepped difficulty, story progression, and gateways.)

    Would we play MMOs nearly as much if there weren't some sort of reward schema?

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  2. It's hard to make something which doesn't reward loot an interesting alternative to raiding, which itself is quintessentially defined by free (and the best) loot.

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  3. I like the idea of discovering something new and cool every day.


    He hasn't mentioned anything about PvP or socialising though ...

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  4. To be fair I think you're seeing this with blinkers on.

    He mentions story as the first thing and progression could cover a number of things including story again and also player skill.

    I don't read the quote you've given as simply saying we want to build a better Skinner Box which is how you seem to be reading it, Nils.

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  5. Stabs, you are probably right. But then, again, have your read the title?

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  6. If you think of a game as a world to explore and interact with rather than a series of rewards for doing specific content, then progression comes naturally. It isn't defined (and consequently restricted) by the developer. We can't really expect a Blizzard employee to concede to this though.

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  7. I tend to agree you are beating him up too much Nils. Yes, the title refers to keeping the rewards coming. Well, a reward can be many things, and I'm not sure that you are asking for an unrewarding game to be invented. A new chapter in a story CAN be a reward, a satisfying conclusion CAN be a reward, an opening up of new areas CAN be a reward.

    When I read the quote "there are still ways to reward players who want to continue questing or playing through quest-like experiences", I did not leap to the conclusion that he was trying to say that "he seems to think that it is all about rewards, rewards and rewards. It seems rewards are the only thing a Blizzard employee can come up with", where you are broadly using reward to refer to an item or suchlike thing, whereas from his list, I saw storylines, new things, other stuff.

    In short, there are many reasons to beat up WoW structure but I don't think that article was one of them.

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  8. I'm probably just allergic to the word 'reward' by now ;)

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  9. Well, instead of using the carrot, the developers could always fetch the stick, and punish the player for not continuing to play at max level. Fail to log on regularly, and they'll take away your cool toys, kill off your favourite NPCs, burn down your guildhouse, make the plants in your garden rot and wither, drain your stats, and so forth.

    Personally, I'd rather have the carrot.

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  10. Ephemeron, but that's not really the choice they have, is it?
    There are more reasons to play games than carrots and sticks.

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  11. From a raiding POV, I reckon some form of ranking would make gear rewards almost unnecessary.

    The motivating effect of ratings in chess and bridge is almost beyond belief - resulting in almost anything from sex to suicide. There's a wonderful book about just this in duplicate bridge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tickets_to_the_Devil.

    I suppose Blizzard would have to be careful of headlines such as: "Student cites unfair WoW rating loss in suicide note"...

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  12. I feel that Nils needs some backing up here in the face of many people not getting it.

    So Nils, I agree with you, buddy. Stick to your guns.

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  13. Haha, thanks Adam ;)

    I should probably be more specific. I condemn their their terminology. And I guess that this terminilogy ("rewards") has both an influence on their thinking as well as it is an indicator of how they think. It's the same with Rift, by the way. If you read developer comments, it's "rewards" everywhere.

    Now, in their terminology a well done quest also seems to be a "reward". In that case my condemnation of doesn't make much sense.
    But even if that's the case, my guess is that there's a reason for their terminilogy. That reason may be subtle, but it is detrimental to good game design.

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  14. "He doesn't even mention anything that would be MMO specific."

    I'm curious what, exactly, is your idea of an "MMO-specific" alternative for those who want to continue to quest at max lvl?

    Isn't "MMO-specific" really up to you, the player? As in player generated content?

    Interact with people. Create some drama. Create some "flavor" on trade chat. Go out and play! as my Mother use to bellow.

    And if multi-player, social or RP stuff isn't your thing, why complain about the poor solo-questing options in an MMO, when single player games do solo-play so much better?

    The limitations to solo/questing/leveling in MMO's are primarily because they are multiplayer in the first place, right?

    Sounds like you are conflicted about the advantages of playing in a multiplayer environment, but wanting gameplay to be an egocentric experience at the same time.

    Please note that I did not call you egocentric, merely that you seem to want your virtual game world to focus on your individual wants, which is not unreasonable in a single player game, but maybe not so much in an MMO.

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  15. Bristal, "MMO-specific" is not just up to me. Why would it be? I want the game to support the multiplayer nature of the game.

    Player-generated content does not mean that the responsibility to generate content is the players'. Instead, it means that the developers need to empower the player to generate content for themselves.
    Anyway, WoW is so far removed from supporting player-generated content, the I don't really understand why you are adressing it (?).

    ---
    Sounds like you are conflicted about the advantages of playing in a multiplayer environment, but wanting gameplay to be an egocentric experience at the same time.

    I don't understand how you arrived at this conclusion. Would you elaborate?

    PS: Don't worry about potential offensive comments. As long as I don't think that you wanted to offend me (or anybody), I welcome strong opinions and strong language. It makes communication easier and more direct.

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