tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post4670567634399549662..comments2024-01-18T16:20:09.743+01:00Comments on Nils' Blog: Lylirra and the Information CurseNilshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-88649125213282164662011-01-30T01:28:19.935+01:002011-01-30T01:28:19.935+01:00It's wouldn't work for mobs/bosses to beha...It's wouldn't work for mobs/bosses to behave unpredictably unless they fixed the specs to deliver more choices in the battle and by choices I mean the ability to act outside ones specific role as needs dictate. Especially the pure DPS classes/specs. <br /><br />The outcome of battles shouldn't be so black and white: wiping or winning, it should be between killing quicker or killing slower.Skypiratehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12737361025486180158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-37859682915022781132011-01-28T19:34:54.462+01:002011-01-28T19:34:54.462+01:00Hmm I dont know if you that is the term "inco...Hmm I dont know if you that is the term "incomplete information" is a correct one to use . For example chess is a game with complete information -you know all the rules , the moves right from the start. You also know position on board for every turn. <br /><br />It looks to me that you trying to solve the problem which does not exist. You dont like PvE encounters which are repetive , scripted and could be optimized for<br /><br />Well the thing is they are like that by design. They are specifically made this way (for many reasons - list too long here too list). Goal of typical theme park pve encounters is not to provide ever changing experience. -That is never their main design objective.<br /><br />And for good reason too. Because if you want challenging ever changing experience you can solve it very simply - - without designing complicated AI and systems (which is hard today). Just make it PvP.<br /><br /><br />If you take exact same game (WoW) and analyze it from arena perspective its not really predictable or scripted. There are certain patterns which repeats themselves , but so is every other game in existence<br /><br /><br />p.s. btw there are nice blog out there sirlin.net. The guys writes really good stuff sometimes about game design. He designed my favorite flash card game (kongai) - game with many choices, all information exposed.Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14814638059509556522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-1034869398686909462011-01-28T18:31:34.636+01:002011-01-28T18:31:34.636+01:00This only pushes WoW raiding even deeper into a pa...This only pushes WoW raiding even deeper into a paradigm that I abhor: that being to assume that we already know everything and then of course have to design encounters with the assumption that we already know everything. I hate pre-scripted fights, not just on the boss end, but on the player end. Wouldn't it be great to have a fight that was unpredictable, so you had to truly respond to abilities, to figure out what to do on the fly, rather than read up exactly what will happen and the best way to do it?<br /><br />This would mean nerfing a lot of abilities. No more half-second reactions to avoid getting one-shot. Instead we'd have to do a lot of thinking while raiding. Maybe that's the problem.Klepsacovichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07915576683657376929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-78511847838846285592011-01-28T10:11:55.561+01:002011-01-28T10:11:55.561+01:00wouldn't agree that handing out information is...<i>wouldn't agree that handing out information is the same as handing someone an "IWIN" button, as your comparison with handing people epics kinda would. </i><br /><br />I agree. I just brought it up to make clear that it is not always better to have a choice than to not have a choice, as you wrote in the last comment.<br /><br />---<br /><br /><i>Even with the perfect information you've still got execution to work with whereas giving awesome epics would remove most of the challenge. Most people are happy with the challenge in execution without the extra challenge of information gathering at the same time it seems. And I don't see the problem in that.</i><br /><br />This is, in fact, a very good point. Understanding World of Warcraft also means understanding that having very few choices can still make a good game. Just as Extra Credits actually, state in the video.<br /><br />A lot of people like to dance not freestyle, but choreography and this is, also, just about execution. So while most game designers probably agree that you should never pass a chance to introduce a meaningful choince in game, it is quite obvious, that even activities that are based solely on execution can be fun. And - depending on the person - maybe even more fun (?).Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-23430620101284409982011-01-28T02:22:39.379+01:002011-01-28T02:22:39.379+01:00I wouldn't agree that handing out information ...I wouldn't agree that handing out information is the same as handing someone an "IWIN" button, as your comparison with handing people epics kinda would. Even with the perfect information you've still got execution to work with whereas giving awesome epics would remove most of the challenge. Most people are happy with the challenge in execution without the extra challenge of information gathering at the same time it seems. And I don't see the problem in that.Zinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14935881612077507321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-86286326874929649282011-01-27T22:58:56.487+01:002011-01-27T22:58:56.487+01:00Ideally the boss would actually change in some way...Ideally the boss would actually change in some way(s) each day, per guild or per server or something. That way you would have to adapt to whatever it is on the day.<br /><br />Probably about then you find someone in your guild has found a sight that finds out the boss of the days configuration and broadcasts it - and you find that this player isn't interested in challenge, he's interested solely in the reward. Then you find how many other players in your guild feel the same. Then your character hangs himself from the top of the inn in goldshire.Callan S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15373053356095440571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-43341826278148921952011-01-27T17:33:22.483+01:002011-01-27T17:33:22.483+01:00I believe this is a miss quote but Sid Meiers said...I believe this is a miss quote but Sid Meiers said "a game is a series of interesting chioces". Now if he really said that or not isn't so important because it has been backed by alot of other game developers and bloggers.<br /><br />WoW has no choices as I see it... wait let me rephrase that. WoW has choices but thanks to WoWhead and EJ all the correct answers on found online. Once you have the correct answer the game is no longer about making decissions and becomes about repeating prescribed steps. It's like playing DDR with your fingers. Your choices end as soon as the "encounter" begins.Epinyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10725412326405113917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-55426103785677917982011-01-27T17:23:51.573+01:002011-01-27T17:23:51.573+01:00I'd be amenable to raid quests that provide so...I'd be amenable to raid quests that provide some lore and background about the bosses abilities. Sort of like the old attunement quests, but WoW would need some sort of lore book that tracked and showed completed quests and their relevant text for this to be useful.Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17419441414045755394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-65075583488956153242011-01-27T13:13:25.834+01:002011-01-27T13:13:25.834+01:00I disagree, Zinn.
Firstly on a theoretical basis:...I disagree, Zinn.<br /><br />Firstly on a theoretical basis:<br />Imagine a button on the log-in screen: "Get T12 now".<br />A choice is always better than no choince? I doubt it.<br /><br />Regarding the specific example:<br />Nice if a you as a guild manage to not have a look at the internet, but in our 25 man guild that would be impossible. Even if the Rl would 'order' it, people would have a look and then claim it is their idea. <br /><br />Moreover, for me it is just less fun to hamstring myself and then face a challenge, than to try to throw my whole 'ingenuity' at it.<br /><br />I wrote about this issue before: <a href="http://nilsmmoblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/fun-fallacy.html" rel="nofollow">Fun Fallacy</a>.Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-79742721185301520972011-01-27T12:33:40.129+01:002011-01-27T12:33:40.129+01:00I agree with you, but providing information doesn&...I agree with you, but providing information doesn't mean forcing information. In my guild we've often decided not to check up tactics on new bosses, but go in "blind" and see what we can learn from it. Even if there is tons of information out there, you can choose not to take part of it. The information, or the availability of it is not a problem, as long as we have the option to not have to look at it. In the end I'd rather have the availability of information and turn it down, than not have the information at all. A choice is better than no choice :)Zinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14935881612077507321noreply@blogger.com