tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post8877071006516322599..comments2024-01-18T16:20:09.743+01:00Comments on Nils' Blog: Fair and unfair PvPNilshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-92214298953567020762010-06-07T19:13:28.318+02:002010-06-07T19:13:28.318+02:00Your observations are very correct.
I would just ...Your observations are very correct. <br />I would just want to emphasize one nuance:<br /><br />Right now EvE and WoW are 2 extreme example of "fairness" level. EvE is almost like real world in terms on consequences, thus the actual combat in EvE is skewed every possible way , much too serious for a game imho. <br /> Real wars are about destroying your opponent. EvE is very much way too hardcore in this direction<br />Dropping atomic bomb on Japan was "unfair" , so was stealing billions in ISK and destroying a titan trough lies and deceit<br /><br />WoW on the other hand is like kindergarten game of dodgeball. Carefully monitored by nannies and is more concerned with no one being hurt than the fun <br /><br />I d think somewhere in the middle -when the stakes are not too high h so that combat itself is more fun and important that it consequences, while at same time having some impact and effect on the world (as opposed to 0 from wow arenas and instanced BGs)Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14814638059509556522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-56485987616803512122010-05-07T23:34:59.189+02:002010-05-07T23:34:59.189+02:00From CCP Hammerhead's livechat on strategy inf...From CCP Hammerhead's livechat on strategy informer earlier this week:<br /><br />Question: "The players of eve would like a better idea of what is on the short list [for the winter expansion]."<br /><br />HH: "Incarna work, an iteration of PI, NPC and mission improvements, EVE Gate improvements, new and better effects, treaties... those are things on the Winter short list. I'd really like to see a revamp/improvement to the combat UI but it's a bigger project that wouldn't fit in Winter with the other things we're doing. "<br /><br />There are people in CCP who see the need for UI change - and plenty of players... ;) Corporate priorities are a pain.<br /><br />http://www.strategyinformer.com/editorials/7904/strategy-informer-live-eve-online<br /><br />I suspect a substantial proportion of EVE's player would sell their grandmother's clone for Engine Trails and a worth substitute for the old cyno/jumpdrive effect, if that's what "new and better effects" might mean. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-29356710163531097572010-05-07T22:58:34.889+02:002010-05-07T22:58:34.889+02:00It probably depends on the complexity of the battl...It probably depends on the complexity of the battle and the available skills. For me, who doesn't even has 1mio SP battles are quite tedious. I hope it becomes much better later on ;)Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-67359214129221075072010-05-07T22:40:55.476+02:002010-05-07T22:40:55.476+02:00"The battles itself can be very tedious, even..."The battles itself can be very tedious, even boring."<br /><br />I have to take issue with this. I have been in a lot of battles in my days and they are anything but tedious. Perhaps the actual mechanics of clicking fire or activating a module is rather tedious but I don't see how this is different from any other game. Clicking a button is clicking a button. However watching angular velocity, capacitor charge, weapon ranges, enemy ranges, enemy locations, Ewar, range to other objects, session timers, speed, distance to gates, friendly's armor/shields, broadcasts, local spikes, module overheat status, etc. keep one pretty busy during the 30-180 seconds a fight usually lasts.Beowolf Schaeferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04915777542500091414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-30268256579744675872010-05-07T15:15:03.766+02:002010-05-07T15:15:03.766+02:00"the more strategy there is to the gameplay t..."the more strategy there is to the gameplay the more likely that tactical combat will be wildly unfair."<br /><br />I think that sentence right there pretty much says it all. PvP in games is not a sport where the two sides match up but rather like a war where numbers, technology, and strategy all play a part in winning or losing.Spidubicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-90230235157934351352010-05-07T14:17:23.439+02:002010-05-07T14:17:23.439+02:00As a sidenote, what Tobold did was cut a bunch of ...As a sidenote, what Tobold did was cut a bunch of bits and pieces from comments that he figured reflected Eve as he saw it, i.e. bad and evil. A well made "sure showed them, haha" blog entry considering his previous ones, but not what I'd characterize as a "nice wrap-up of a review".<br /><br /><br />The problem with Sport-pvp, or Fair-pvp if you prefer, is that it needs to be either quite complex or take a high degree of skill to master, to have lasting appeal. Neither of which is present in any MMO I've ever seen.<br /><br />For fair "PvP" with long term appeal I have to go to flight sims (IL2) and racing simulations (IRacing, GTR2/GTL/GPL), as only these types of games allow a wider and deeper skillset to be used, allowing you to hone your skills and see clear improvement over years, instead of just weeks/months. No MMO offers this. Closest at least somewhat MMO-like game is Battleground Europe, or WW2Online as it used to be called.<br /><br />War-PvP, or Un-fair PvP on the other hand, can get away with simplistic MMO style gameplay <i>(where as Yahtzee put it, "you take turns kicking each other on the shins, and the one with the bigger boots wins)</i> because of the multi-faceted combat and strategy, where that shin kicking is only a short part of it, and still generate interest year after year.<br /><br />Eve can make your heart pound like no other game I've played, because of the context you mention, because of the risk. But you have to work for it, you have to put in the time and effort, to create something you care about, and then risk losing it. If you don't, even Eve becomes just another "kick the opponents shins" game, like most other MMO's. This part of the game can only start once you're past the newb period, once you have a decent grasp of game mechanics and of available income streams.<br /><br />As an avid three year vet to get that adrenaline rush I've recently started putting assets (ships+imps) on the front line that are worth upwards of 20 months of game time (roughly 300eur if you pay by month). Sometimes more. <br /><br /><i>(You can buy game-time both with RL currency and In Game currency (ISK). I do the latter, i.e. I don't put real money into the game.)</i> <br /><br />Someday I'll lose that to good opponents or a stupid mistake, and that day I will be angry <i>(if due to own mistake)</i> and sad, but until then I will get that excitement from risking them and hopefully coming out ahead.<br /><br />Adrenaline rushes to the point of shaking hands from computer games? Who'd have thunk it? Certainly not I, in fact I sneered with some contempt at folks who said they got them, how silly of them to take a simplistic MMO so seriously.... Yet after some time in Eve I discovered it's possible :D<br /><br />Obviously not everyone agrees with me, given the popularity of simplistic shoebox fps's and the big name MMO's. Yet I'm fairly sure they don't get the shakes from their game to the extent many Eve players do. Maybe they don't know it's possible, or maybe they don't want the excitement.<br /><br /><br />.....Oh dear, meant to briefly comment on general pvp, but, Eve crept in and took over. I hope it's not too out of place, as that's where this discussion started.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11315019563862997279noreply@blogger.com