tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post1629979585075452882..comments2024-01-18T16:20:09.743+01:00Comments on Nils' Blog: Even Blizzard can't do UnderwaterNilshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-61496958554410870602011-10-07T01:20:04.613+02:002011-10-07T01:20:04.613+02:00And honestly, Blizzard was about a hair-width away...<i>And honestly, Blizzard was about a hair-width away from Vashj'ir being effectively unplayable because of the underwater "mechanics," at least as far as I was concerned.</i><br /><br />I agree with this. And that's why I ask the question of whether we need underwater stuff in the first place? Seems to be impossible to get it feel like underwater and being good gameplay at the same time.<br /><br />I'm <b>not</b> saying that I want Vashj'ir to be like real life underwater. That would be terrible gameplay. But I also don't want it to feel like jumping on the moon.Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-2963368489379885342011-10-07T00:36:02.568+02:002011-10-07T00:36:02.568+02:00Just because “magic” exists in a game or world doe...<i>Just because “magic” exists in a game or world doesn’t mean we throw every rule out the window.</i><br /><br />Ehh... I agree with Idleness here. You may not throw <i>every</i> rule out of the window (e.g. walls are solid), but complaining about flying mounts underwater, complaining about how underwater walking is handled while under the effects of the Sea Legs spell and so on is completely ridiculous - especially considering how water navigation is handled differently everywhere else (as you would expect, lacking the Sea Legs ability).<br /><br /><i>If I don't feel like I am underwater then what is the point of underwater zones?</i><br /><br />If you are looking for (water) simulators, why are you playing videogames?<br /><br />I really don't know what to tell you other than you are clearly doing it wrong. There was never a time where I was <i>not</i> acutely aware that I was underwater in Vashj'ir. And honestly, Blizzard was about a hair-width away from Vashj'ir being effectively unplayable <i>because</i> of the underwater "mechanics," at least as far as I was concerned. Enemies spawning in multiple layers, critical AoE attacks being unable to be cast without a 2D surface to target or being effectively useless, and so on.Azurielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16581263347888757710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-2958807363283154082011-10-06T22:47:31.009+02:002011-10-06T22:47:31.009+02:00@Idleness
This is where immersion and continuity ...@Idleness<br /><br />This is where immersion and continuity come into play. We accept the fact that mounts can fly and that magic is possible but we are also asked to accept that gravity still exists and oxygen is important while under water. You have to have RULES with in a world for it to be believable. If at any time you could just blast off and fly away, or live forever underwater, or kill any monster with one swing, then you are breaking the reality of the game.<br /><br />This happens in every fiction movie and book. We are asked to believe some things that are not real, exist; and in exchange some things that are real continue to be so. Just because “magic” exists in a game or world doesn’t mean we throw every rule out the window. This is the agreement the story teller and the listener often make during a movie or book.<br /><br />Now with games the developer often has to make compromises for the sake of fun and gameplay, but that doesn’t mean we should just accept the fact that no rules apply.<br /><br />I hate underwater zones. I have since Kedge Keep. I still hate them after playing Cata.Epinyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10725412326405113917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-83288258986892895132011-10-06T21:16:07.797+02:002011-10-06T21:16:07.797+02:00I agree with Kring.
BTW my druid can swim at ludi...I agree with Kring.<br /><br />BTW my druid can swim at ludicrous speed while my bags are filled with polearms and staves :P<br />Not to mention the stacks of volatile fire....Helistarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01435861741164342377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-87530403979158886252011-10-06T14:17:57.768+02:002011-10-06T14:17:57.768+02:00I think it has nothing to do with water and everyt...I think it has nothing to do with water and everything with the game itself.<br /><br />The WoW combat system was never designed to work in all 3 dimensions, neither was the interface, neither are the spells nor the graphical spell effects. The minimap doesn't work in 3 dimensions and the world map isn't any help either. You don't even have a "compass" showing you up.<br /><br />Walking with WASD is intuitive, the way they've implemented ascending and descending is fiddly.<br /><br />Tab targeting always was poorly implemented in WoW (it never targets the target I want it to target) and doesn't (and probably can't) work in 3 dimensions because there are to many unknowns. There's a difference between "one of the mobs" in front of you and "the mob in front of you on the surface or at the bottom of the sea".<br /><br />All area effects work on the ground which doesn't work with 3 dimensions, let alone the stupid targeting circle. In 3 dimensions you need something like water bombs, which WoW doesn't have. It feels like you're in a lesser zone if you can't use consecration or shadowfury but don't gain anything in exchange.<br /><br />The distinction between walking and swimming is irritating and unnecessary.<br /><br />The whole "combat speed" is not designed for slower water speed, hence they had to increase the speed.<br /><br />The third dimension isn't in any way taken into account with current spells, like the "sink" spell showed by GW2.<br /><br />I don't know if underwater will work in GW2 and I'm not sure if it'll be fun. But if you want to include underwater (or vehicle) combat then you better design the game with those things in mind because you can't add these things later.<br /><br />I hate WoW underwater, but I never had problems with 3 dimensions in Wing Commander.Kringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128630042421602039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-43828402585982689402011-10-06T14:10:45.658+02:002011-10-06T14:10:45.658+02:00Did I say show-stopping somewhere? I agree with yo...Did I say show-stopping somewhere? I agree with you, Idleness: it is not show-stopping.<br /><br />But the point is somewhere there is a line. Flying mounts with flying sounds deep in the water, like in the last post - is that where the line is for you?<br /><br />If we could walk through walls, would that be a line? Or if a boss mob explained a nice voice how we are supposed to defeat him. How we are supposed to run into the triangle that he makes just for us before he makes a storm to kill us if not in the triangle? Is that where the line is for you? <br /><br />Where is it?Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-18120939526860340732011-10-06T13:45:00.411+02:002011-10-06T13:45:00.411+02:00I can tread water in full plate, with a weapon in ...I can tread water in full plate, with a weapon in one hand and a shield in the other and you're worried about the walking animation while in water?? I don't get it and I've never heard a single person in all my years of WoW complain about how the water environment is handled - except for them to be annoyed by the fact that they move slowly!<br />Seriously, why is this a concern? WoW has always been about a fantasy world with obviously fantasy physics. Why not complain about the physical attributes of some flying mounts and how they shouldn't 1) be able to fly and 2) even if they could they shouldn't be able to carry my character and manoeuvre the way they do? You can't have your fantasy suspension of disbelief on one hand and expect proper simulation of physics in another. I have no problem with the water portion of the game. Admittedly Vashj was a little difficult to adjust too - but hardly show-stopping.Idlenesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04142520705879516905noreply@blogger.com