tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post1110567270243257605..comments2024-01-18T16:20:09.743+01:00Comments on Nils' Blog: The Value of BoundariesNilshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-69251382946015878532011-08-31T08:46:34.908+02:002011-08-31T08:46:34.908+02:00Callan, you need to differentiate between two kind...Callan, you need to differentiate between two kinds of blog post.<br /><br />The first is about what I want. For example if I say that this game is not 'immersive' enough.<br /><br />The second one is about everybody. For example when I say that good games need to keep the mind busy.<br /><br />I know, it's not always easy. But then, this isn't a book. Blog's are read for inspiration (and to keep your mind busy).Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-29551846316357150532011-08-31T04:47:11.372+02:002011-08-31T04:47:11.372+02:00Name giving gives you the capacity to get the game...Name giving gives you the capacity to get the game you want.<br /><br />Because without names to differentiate, you keep thinking everyone wants the same thing as you and thinking you can all play together. While some of them do want what you want, others will keep pushing for the dungeon journey to be cut out. And you'll keep assuming this is just a mistake on their behalf, that really they like the dungeon journey, because you will give no other name to them.Callan S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15373053356095440571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-83124327139446512792011-08-29T08:53:27.136+02:002011-08-29T08:53:27.136+02:00It's a social convention, Callan. There are a ...It's a social convention, Callan. There are a lot of social conventions. They are arbitrary, yet important. Your house is a human fabrication, too. <br /><br />Moreover, I don't see what makes social conventions not part of real life. They are quite obviously part of it. <br /><br />But, call them what you want. What follows from your name-giving ?Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-44342450351714401602011-08-29T02:35:21.273+02:002011-08-29T02:35:21.273+02:00I mean, everything is part of real life. We only h...<i>I mean, everything is part of real life. We only have this one life. Whatever you do during it, it's part of it. Scrapping your dog's shit off the street so it stays clean, marrying your wife, working your job, helping your grandma, arguing with your sister, meeting with with friends, and yes, playing games.</i><br /><br />No, some things are just fake - lies, essentially. Take which side of the road you drive on - is that 'part of real life'?<br /><br />No, it's a lie. Sure, we sustain the lie because people tend not to crash into each other if we sustain the lie that you drive on X side of the road. But it's a lie that you drive on the left hand side of the road (or the right - the difference in laws in different countries show up the glaring fib). It's not part of the world. It's a human fabrication overlayed on top of the real world.<br /><br />If you think "No, I get that", the fact is, I don't even think I get it on everything. There are still some things I think are part of the world which are just fabrications. So it is atleast possible for someone to think they get it, but not actually do so.Callan S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15373053356095440571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-64674077884136680112011-08-28T11:49:45.787+02:002011-08-28T11:49:45.787+02:00You are right to feel sad for them, Azuriel. But y...You are right to feel sad for them, Azuriel. But you should avoid feeling superiour to them ;)Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-8716592811675008322011-08-28T11:25:15.846+02:002011-08-28T11:25:15.846+02:00Some people might be better able to push the thoug...<i>Some people might be better able to push the thought out of their brains, or look for goals that cannot be achieved with cheating (creating the enterprise). But for many players that is much harder.</i><br /><br />Again, if players lose enjoyment of the game because they consciously know their game has a Difficulty Slider going from Easy to Hard, I feel sad for them. Especially since most games do, let alone games with extreme easiness options (hacks, godmode, etc).<br /><br />I stick with default difficulty because I imagine that that is what the designers/writers intended the narrative to be experienced at - if a book writer intended their audience to read a book while on a rollercoaster, for example, I imagine the book would be written in a slightly different way.<br /><br />My stance changes in MMOs though, because I understand the game is designed to consume as much time as possible, which can only be done by stacking it with meaningless, boring tasks. That is why I would absolutely be first in line for the tap in the house, and why I have been a vocal supporter for teleports since the Blizz devs stupidly thought they did anyone favors by removing them. "It makes the world bigger!" Bollocks.<br /><br />Time sinks never make the world bigger, they make the world more boring. <b>You make worlds bigger by adding more things to it</b>. If things like tap water and teleports skipped you past content you actually wanted to see, you would not use them even if they existed - using them to skip things you weren't interested in is Working As Intended. Maybe there is an issue of people skipping interesting things they did not <i>know</i> existed, but using time sinks to force players to see them is simply bad design on the part of the devs.Azurielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16581263347888757710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-86730025344694272992011-08-28T09:42:57.005+02:002011-08-28T09:42:57.005+02:00Callan, I really don't understand you. It seem...Callan, I really don't understand you. It seems like you mean something else when you say 'part of real life'. Do you mean 'important' or 'less important than other things' ?<br /><br />I mean, everything is part of real life. We only have this one life. Whatever you do during it, it's part of it. Scrapping your dog's shit off the street so it stays clean, marrying your wife, working your job, helping your grandma, arguing with your sister, meeting with with friends, and yes, playing games.Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-24037409663149962552011-08-28T00:47:59.831+02:002011-08-28T00:47:59.831+02:00Nils, it depends on whether your interested in bei...Nils, it depends on whether your interested in being argued out of the idea that boardgames are part of real life.<br /><br />I think your interested in stating video games/board games are part of real life. I'm not sure your interested in finding something else the case. As I'm guessing it's pretty important to you that they are real. I've learnt my lesson in the past to not try to glibly dismantle peoples important things.Callan S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15373053356095440571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-29961434748716412252011-08-27T09:45:24.688+02:002011-08-27T09:45:24.688+02:00Azuriel wrote:
If the mere existence of godmode o...Azuriel wrote:<br /><i><br />If the mere existence of godmode options siphons fun out of your games, I feel sad for you</i><br /><br />I do understand Straw pretty well, actually. I used to hack save games some ten to fifteen years ago and really had to learn the hard way that this is not a good idea.<br /><br />Some people might be better able to push the thought out of their brains, or look for goals that cannot be achieved with cheating (creating the enterprise). But for many players that is much harder.<br /><br />That's one reason I like MMORPGs: NO save games. Not even quick save! A hard/harsh/immovable boundary/rule/restriction; I love it.Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-69605775351078918462011-08-27T09:30:47.914+02:002011-08-27T09:30:47.914+02:00Callan, you seem to think that computer games are ...Callan, you seem to think that computer games are not part of real life. But computer games are just as real as board games ..Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-75668112768138439802011-08-27T06:08:40.633+02:002011-08-27T06:08:40.633+02:00Nils, it strikes me that you engage the computer p...Nils, it strikes me that you engage the computer program as if engaging an actual real life situation?<br /><br />Like, the only value to you is the idea that you do have to walk five miles for water. Like, you just have to as in reality you might just have to.<br /><br />The major, important thing to you is that as much as reality remains static, so too does the game remain static in it's structure and play?<br /><br />How is this fun for you? I'd almost think part of your brain is simply being tricked into thinking it is real, then dragging along the part of your brain that knows it isn't? Are you just being dragged along into something that has no real highs or lows in itself?Callan S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15373053356095440571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-28372820119651279832011-08-27T03:43:24.467+02:002011-08-27T03:43:24.467+02:00I'm not sure why this is happening, are compan...<i>I'm not sure why this is happening, are companies becoming involved in some kind of marketing cold war? Gameplay is sacrificed on the altar of convenience and the need for ever-faster progression... </i><br /><br />I have not looked into LotRO, but I would assume it is because the majority of the expansion content will be expanding the endgame, which is a bit useless to people not actually at said endgame. It doesn't make sense for the Deus Ex: HR guys to say "25% bonus XP/damage weekend so you can progress faster!" because once you beat the game, you are generally done. With LotRO and WoW (etc) though, it <i>can</i> make sense if what I want to do is experience the endgame as a different class/whatever. The leveling game is basically the same no matter what class you pick - only the endgame is meaningfully different. Ergo, bonus XP is something not only easy to "give," but it is compelling for the average player, especially if they start thinking "Well, I <i>might</i> want a different toon, and I'll feel bad for leveling one up slower later if I don't act now."<br /><br /><i>Now I can't play the game anymore because what's the point? I can get whatever I want, and without the challenge the game has become meaningless.</i><br /><br />If the mere existence of godmode options siphons fun out of your games, I feel sad for you. Minecraft has similar developer tools, and there are thousands of Youtube videos from people having fun using them (1:1 scale models of USS Enterprise, computer-frying explosions of TNT skyscrapers, etc). Even in MMOs, there are bots that could gather resources and/or farm gold for you all day long so that you could buy your way into hardmode raid runs. Nothing is particularly sacred in this way. Choosing to not utilize "hacks" should not impact your ability to have the same fun you had before you were cognizant of it.<br /><br />As an aside though, you picked Terraia for its "challenge?" If you did not also enjoy building structures and having some affect on the world then perhaps its best you "ruined" the game for yourself.Azurielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16581263347888757710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-77452113686544905812011-08-26T22:01:29.880+02:002011-08-26T22:01:29.880+02:00"Gameplay is sacrificed on the altar of conve..."Gameplay is sacrificed on the altar of convenience and the need for ever-faster progression..."<br /><br />And in turn, "inadvertently" convincing us that the gameplay wasn't fun to begin with.<br /><br />I use quotes because I find it hard to believe they don't know this.<br /><br />I'm afraid I've ruined a game for myself lately in a similar manner; Terraria. I found a lovely little program that lets you put items into your inventory. I thought it was awesome...for a total of 10 minutes.<br /><br />Now I can't play the game anymore because what's the point? I can get whatever I want, and without the challenge the game has become meaningless.Strawfellowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01575682856487531183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7801344413612447717.post-56263342417125690442011-08-26T14:22:42.963+02:002011-08-26T14:22:42.963+02:00Good post, and a nice analogy.
Of course my comp...Good post, and a nice analogy. <br /><br />Of course my complaint about Rift's bonus XP weekend is just the one that came to mind first. Many games are doing this now. <br /><br />Actually on reflection the worst one is probably LoTRO - the pre-order for the next expansion gives you a massive XP boost (25% on all characters until they reach level 65). That right there put me off pre-ordering instantly. <br /><br />I'm not sure why this is happening, are companies becoming involved in some kind of marketing cold war? Gameplay is sacrificed on the altar of convenience and the need for ever-faster progression...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com